My thoughts on JW Broadcasting 15, with Mark Noumair (tv.jw.org) – Cedars’ vlog no. 104

My thoughts on JW Broadcasting 15, with Mark Noumair (tv.jw.org) – Cedars’ vlog no. 104

64 COMMENTS

    Also the host MN was not presented with name when acting solo but was so last time he appeared with a GB-member…
    Talking about hierarchy and so typical 😉

    I belong to the new JW group, the Just Wonderings. So, just wondering, how many elders cry in these videos? Perhaps Splaine would have been more persuasive had he dripped a bit over that generations chart.

    John Cedars, just a recomentation. I think it would be useful to add those books you mention in the description of the video as bibliographical references. I know you're always busy as video editing is time consuming. This is just a reminder that I think might help.

    i like the comments about the emotional stuff in the broadcasts. it is one of the things that started me waking up .just like another evangelical Tv channel. another thing that shoked me into waking up is the child baptism .we were taught that was all wrong back in the 60s all part of chrisendoms apostasy. a child of 7 recently baptised i think in cyprus . and the shunning. the feb study edition WT page 27 paras 6 –7 it showes a mother who has been dfs begging her daughter to visit . the daughter is" loyal to jah " and sends her a letter saying " if you want to stop the pain you must return to jehovah " !! blackmail .evil .agreat example of the low to which the GB has sunk to hang on to its captives.

    I'm on the baptism part right now, and I need to share this while it's on the brain.

    Growing up, I remember hearing my parents and my grandparents talk about how JW baptism was different from, say, that of the Catholics because while they were "baptising babies", if you were with the JWs, you had to "grow close to Jehovah," first. Know him and etc etc, and how as a child–much less a baby–there was no way you could truly know Jehovah or truly know if you're ready to dedicate yourself to him in such a way.

    It wasn't just my family, though. Most of the congregations I'd attended held the same beliefs. "We're better/right because we don't force this on our young," and yet they do, and with harsher consequences than the examples they liked to hold up. I don't know what they say now, but it's all I ever heard on the matter just a mere ten years ago (which, now that I think about it, is around the time a cousin of mine was baptised. She was fifteen).

    It's… baffling, to say the least.

    Time Line > of Anti Sciene organization: Watchtower
    Adam created: 4026 B.C.E. hahahahahahaaha the human exists only 6,000 years
    https://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/true-faith/bible-timeline/

    Hi Lloyd! I greatly enjoy your videos, and want to thank you for the effort you put into them. I'm a little split on Watchtower attacking evolutionary biology again, however. On one hand, I love reading and watching the stuff they make on the topic, it's absolutely hilarious watching a bunch of people who have no idea what they're talking about trudge through a topic that requires extensive research and an actual desire to learn. As such they make hilarious blunders just about every time they've ever brought up evolutionary biology and assumed that a group of uneducated people with no credentials are going to uproot one of the most robust theories in modern science. On the other hand, however, it saddens me a little. I know very well that people (especially the impressionable children as shown in the video) are going to watch this and eat it up. They'll only go to creationist sources for their research, and as such, never really learn anything. A distrust and contempt for authorities in learning (teachers, scientists) is nurtured, and as such you get ridiculous anti-science ideas floating around. I personally know dozens of JW's who are anti-vaxxers, climate change deniers, and at least two or three who think that Bigfoot is a scientific conspiracy to find the "missing link" (laughably, what they don't know is that the last missing link in primate evolution was already found, the link between wet and dry nosed monkeys, in a specimen named Ida, a specimen that they attack in the The Origin of Life brochure showing yet again that they don't know what they're talking about).

    I also wanted to expand a little bit on what you said regards your comments in that portion of the video. You slightly overstated the length of the Cambrian explosion, the consensus puts it more between 20-50 million years long as an event, of course, a difference of 10 million years of so is just a tiny blip on the scale of deep time that the earth has been around, so the total length has some elasticity. Now regards the type of life emerging, you stated that prior to the Cambrian, only very simple, if not single celled life existed. Actually, not so! The Cambrian era marks the emergence of hard bodied organisms, the development of skeletal structures. These, of course, fossilize more easily, as the constraints for fossilization are already incredibly difficult to meet, and pretty near impossible if there is no hard skeletal structure to be preserved. As a result of this, it gives the appearance of an "explosion" of life. Before the Cambrian, fossilization was basically impossible, afterwards, it was bumped up to just "very very unlikely". You are, however, absolutely correct in the various hypotheses that you mention are proposed to explain why a jump in diversification happened.

    Also, to expand a little on the part where you mentioned the whole concept of the tree of life and the section in TOL on it, very very much of that article is quote mining scientists on a more recent development in evolutionary biology known as horizontal gene transfer. It's not too incredibly complicated, single celled life forms can "bump into" each other and trade genes that way, which does not directly relate to the classical evolutionary understanding of how life diversifies, especially at the "root" level of the tree. If my recollection is correct, the article said something about there being multiple "roots" at the tree of life, which would be caused by this swapping of genes seen in single celled organisms, Watchtower forgot the second part of the statement, I'm not sure why, certainly it was an accident, they would never do something dishonest 😉

    To expand just a little bit on what you said about DNA as well, I understand of course that you're not a biologist and likely a layperson, but it's better put this way: When we look at organisms physical structures, we find a pattern. For instance, bird's wings are made of fused fingers, and their overall skeletal structure is very similar to that of non-avian dinosaurs (cuz birds are dinosaurs, yo), of course there are the extreme similarities between humans and other apes (Yes, unfortunately we're monkeys), the fact that cetaceans (whales, dolphins, porpoises) have fins made of fingers instead of the much more robust fin structure in fish, the list goes on. This pattern gives you an idea of what this tree looks like. We then go to DNA and find the exact same pattern, yo and behold, humans are only 1.6% different from chimps, cetaceans are genetically similar to other eutherian mammals, not fish, birds are most closely related to reptiles, etc. This is the same pattern found in the fossil record, fossils are found that show the lineage of whales from artiodactyls, they show that many dinosaurs were feathered, warm blooded, later ones could fly (archaeopteryx and microraptor) as well as having "half wings" (oviraptor), the list here goes on as well. That doesn't even begin to get into the relationships, honestly I could go on for days about atavisms, vestigial organs, geographical distribution, retroviral insertions into DNA, the patterns of differences found in highly conserved genes (genes that we can't afford to have drastically changed, such as those controlling bilateral development, etc), even psychology allows us to trade some evolutionary history. I just wanted to make it very clear how evolutionary relationships are understood.

    And finally, you did hit a pet peeve of mine in using the terms "simple and complex" when describing fossils, saying they always moved upwards. This isn't strictly true, they also gradually change to fill an environmental niche, and "complexity" is subjective. Some animals evolve highly specialized traits (known as plesiomorphies) that makes them really really good in a certain environment, but backs them into an evolutionary corner, so that if their environment drastically changed, they're down and out. Other animals, however, rely on being "simple". Basal forms of animals provide a type of "blank canvas" for evolution to work with. Racoons are such an animals that I can think of off the top of my head, very versatile creatures, capable of adapting to many environments quickly. You are, of course, correct in saying that complex traits don't just show up and jump all over the place. I just fear that your wording was a bit confusing for those uneducated in the area.

    Thank you for taking the time to read this ridiculously and unnecessarily wrong post!

    Grrr I really hate the spreading of misinformation about science! I wish more scientists who blatantly get falsely quoted would sue Watchtower. They literally quote half sentences sometimes! Interestingly since they do this the writers must be being purposely deceitful and is not just a case of being ignorant.

    I noticed another tactic of Watchtower is to kinda combine Evolution and the Origins of Life as one single theory. Naturally they are both linked but there are more doubts surrounding the origins of life, so they then use that as a way of discounting evolution too (again another kind of strawman). Evolution simply deals with how organisms change over time according to their environment, not where they came from.

    In a way Im surprised more religions arent in favour of evolution as its like a 'get out of jail free card'. Without evolution surely you have to assume that Jehovah purposely designed parasites and viruses, which is extremely wicked!

    For those here that believe Adam was created in 4026 BC. That number is based on the masoric versions of Genesis. According to the Septuagint (LXX) version of Genesis most men from Adam to Abram are 100 years older when they get their sons. That alone would place Adam's creation over 1000 years earlier. How does Watchtower know which version is right? If the LXX is wrong, why do all writers of the New Testament solely quote from the Septuagint? If the Masoric version is right, why does Luke 3:36 place "Cainan" between Arpachsad and Selah, which is only in the LXX? ! Tim 1:4 says christians should not "devote themselves to endless genealogies, which promote speculations rather than the stewardship of God." So, why are christians spending soo much time on the endless genealogies of Genesis to calculate speculative dates of Adam's creation.

    I think JW broadcasting needs at least 30 helpers to make it possible to get through an episode with the GB. The GB annoy me so much. I wish they would spend some money on charm school for them. Not one of them is likable in my opinion.

    lmao dude john cedars i was thinking the samething about the pants lol and then u say that hahahaha oh man great minds do think alike hahaha

    Some additional information I think you'll find really interesting, is that archeological evidence now shows camels weren't in Israel at all, until after 930 BC (http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2014/02/140210-domesticated-camels-israel-bible-archaeology-science/). Not only is that nearly a full 1000 years after 1878 BC, but it fits the arrival of camels in Israel right before that neo-Assyrian empire period (in the 8th & 7th century BCE) pointed out in the book @30:20

    You are right about people not understanding what a scientific theory means. In the vernacular, people are always saying that they have a theory, meaning they think something is logical, and they believe it might be correct. That's the definition of "theory' that the young lady held. I would imagine that scientific theory is never defined by Watchtower.

    I hope those helpers are anointed!!!!   if they're not anointed I won't be able to put my complete faith in them too!! Shewww!!

    I think Watchtower finds itself in an increasingly narrowing gap. They are trying to ride the line between the increasing knowledge of science and the absurd ideas of creationism.

    Is very sickening to watch and listening to this twisted propaganda,from those windows cleaners. And as you say i watch it because i want to reconfirming myself where i was for the most of my life time. thank you for you time and effort you put on. we do need these reminders because it giving us reassurance and balancy our thinking to the right desteny

    Another brilliant video Lloyd😉 I particularly like the exposing the GB on exploitation of the disabled and the child baptism… The resurrection teaching is just creepy once you're "awake" and SEE it for what it really is…

    I'm calling bullshit on the whole "divine edumacation" makes people more humble." The Jehovah's Witnesses™ whom I have met that have gone to Gilead schools have been some of the most arrogant humans I have ever met.

    YES! my YES! pertaining to the "addiction" of holy spirit, and then tho old jw favorite when you make a decision that was made prayerfully that you feel and believe was guided by Jehovah's "active force" didn't turn out to be a good decision, "well sometimes Jehovah answers your prayers in ways you dont like" or "you must have not been specific enough or had the wrong heart motives" etc…. this reminds me of a video I saw from another truther called the wishing box or the wishing machine film another youtube video which refers to the watchtowers use of occult tools similar to Ouija boards aka radionics machines, really creepy.

    Around @4:24 and again @4:58, talking about the lady's comment about being a "small atom of dust", I would LOVE to have been able to ask her, "Then each member of the Governing Body should also think of themselves as being 'small atoms of dust', right?  Since they are supposed to take the lead, especially in showing humility…  And you should think of them as being no more than that too, right?"

    The type, anti-type obsession was strong with Rutherford as well. No doubt you already know this, but he even tried to tie the ten plagues which supposedly befell ancient Egypt to certain judgments announced by WBTS in the 1920's; Although the idea seemed to be an afterthought, since no connection was mentioned until around 1934. ( And they were also not carried out in the same order. ) And so, it seems the plagues, were just plagues.

    I had a genuine concern that the girl signing was Nelly Furtado…I had to look her up just to double check and make sure she wasn't a Witness now. So interesting how things have changed though…I remember when I was a witness, which wasn't that long ago, this kind of thing was looked down upon. I can remember specific mentions in talks about "Jehovah's People" not needing to "coax the youth" in with music and other outlandish things that take away from "true worship." And yet….here we have a Broadcasting channel…with songs every month. I feel bad for those kids who's parents are making a point to have their kids listen to this music as oppose to anything in "the world". I'm just waiting for a CD to come out so they can put this crap on their phones and ipods.

    Hate when JW bash evolution. I think the most hypocritical thing they do in the publication is the quote mining, highly misleading and angers me.

    Impeccable research John. I can only imagine had your life been different, academia would've been your calling. I think Cambridge or Harvard is calling for you.

    Adding on: Truly fascinating video, but not just this one only, all of yours are greatly informative and highly inspirational. Whether you're theist or not, your presentations are impartial and unbiased.

    Great video Lloyd as ever well observed and reasoned. One point I always puzzled re evolution and creation was how did Noah capture every species of animal in the arc? For example there are 37 species of cat including lions and domestic tabbie! So if he took two of every kind? Did this mean he scoured every part of the earth to capture every species? If so this must have taken an inordinate amount of time and travel! Also via DNA and other evidence it's clear some species are evolved and only appear at certain points of history so post Noah! Latterly dogs have diversified more through human intervention.
    Also further point which irritates with JW videos is why they refer to disabled people as handicapped when this is an offensive term for someone with a disability. Shows how out of touch they are with disabled people in reality.

    Heck! These GB helpers are just as fake and insincere as their mentors, not to mention just downright bad actors.

    Seriously, as if any teacher would say that in a middle school classroom. Teachers are not that dumb or two dimensional.

    Ahh yes Donkor-Leone "just when I thought I was out…..THEY PULL ME BACK IN!!" That was actually Michael that said that…but I couldn't resist. An offer I couldn't refuse.

    It is so interesting seeing this cult morph into something almost unrecognizable. They are doing everything they once preached strongly against, including televangelism and baptizing babies. Let us not forgot about the constant bashing of the Catholics for their child sexual abuse. The watchtower's pedophilia issue far exceeds the Catholics on so many levels. Their propaganda videos are both disgusting and amusing but I'm so glad they put them out there. Great video! Thanks.

    Found a picture of the bamboo poles with wheels.
    http://www.dreamstime.com/royalty-free-stock-photos-team-boys-bamboo-toys-indonesia-image16855328

    33:45 Interesting how openly Splane talks about the WTS's past. I had thought they had a generally 1984 vibe- in that they continually put forth "new understandings" and, when asked about the past, either offer nothing or revisionist history. Type-antitype stuff (which I was barely around for, if at all) seems very confusing. Requires too much scholasticism from the members. Now, the focus is, obviously, hitting the feels.

    +John Cedars you said "bacteria 'evolve' must quicker…."  My question to you is… what do the bacteria become? If they are STILL bacteria, than I believe that is called variation or adaptation (not macro evolution).
    Also… in regard to the girl using the jw research guide… at 15:50 you said "it basically sets forth the writer's reasons why evolution can be questioned" … During this part of the video, your body language is very telling.  It's telling me that evolution is your new religion and you are going to protect it just like you did jw teachings, back when you wrongly agreed with that belief system.  Your body language says, 'how dare anyone question evolution… how stupid and crazy of anyone to question evolution… how irreverent for anyone to question evolution'  …. which, as I hope you know, is a bully-tactic.

    John cedars speaking out. camera cancel YouTube. John cedars hypocrisy. you John warning independent . why speaking lie lie . you all not supporters .Who You were aawcc warnings c.f
    .religions 9.11 hit tower . where form London . call f B l lndepdenter . religious 9 .11 Bomd tower and paris kill peopless restaurant. John is guilty.

    w

    'I am so sick of Africa being patronised by the
    so called great 'white saviours,may Jehovah rebuke them! The use of vocal expression's in pitch and tone to magnify a 'man made' corporation is evil and for use of their language 'demonic'
    thanks! for the video

    Thanks for doing this video John. There was a lot to cover, from evolution, camels, higher education, child baptism! Haha! The mind boggles. That's why I aways listen to your rebuttals of the broadcasts because you simplify everything and put it all into perspective. Thank you.

    If someone used my disability (I'm hearing impaired) to further their cult nonsense, I'd be incredibly angry. They're doing the same thing to that young woman as they did to that boy with autism in a recent episode. It's exploitation, pure and simple. The same is true for child baptism.

    Secular education doesn't teach humility? The more you learn, the more you realise there is to be learned and people who actually know more tend to be more humble and admit they can be wrong about things, people who know less are always so confident in themselves and their ignorance

    "Open your valve." No need for that. Thought you were against fornication lol.

    Great points at 53:00 minutes in, about the WTS broadcasting only interested in stimulating emotions, over reason.  It's so true!

    The argument about evolutionary theory debunking creationism is spurious .There simply are not enough vertebrate and arthropod fossil specimens to constitute a "record"and there is so much mollusc and cnidaria fossils that meaningful conclusions are not possible —they don't show much evolutionary change .Museums of natural history and textbooks often conflate bone which most of the time is a thousand times newer with fossils .The argument is to replace one "argumentum ad verecundiam "with another .

    We share 50% DNA with bananas, we are also closely related to pigs as pig organs and valves have been used in transplants and bypasses. The problem is people don't grasp what DNA is. DNA is just building blocks that everything is made from. The trouble is science requires using your brain, religious people be like "I don't know, therefore god!"

    Government Body-If it sounds like a man-made government, its a government made by men, putting themselves in God's place.

    When my JW boyfriend died, I was fully awake, he was in the process of awakening, but I had decided once we got married, I was going to continue in, until he wanted, all of his family are witnesses. When he suddenly died, I was really upset that I did not believe in the Resurrección anymore. I had to come to terms with the fact, he was gone, and I wasn’t going to see him again. His family specially his mom, kept saying she was going to make sure to be there for him after Armageddon and told me to wait for him, after all, she said, Armageddon is so close. As you can imagine, grief was too big, I kept bursting in tears everywhere at anytime, after a meeting an elder approached me and asked me if I didn’t have faith in the resurrection… I kept quiet, I’m still in the process of fading, now that he is gone, there is not reason for me to stay.

    My understanding is that much of the Old (and probably New) Testament are Jewish story-telling to make a point about ways of living in those days. 10 camels – the Hebrews loved numbers attached to things 10, 3, 7 were faves, just like the Chinese prefer the #8 – because it's an auspicious number

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